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Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar fcaracol » Mer FĂ©v 08, 2017 10:47 am

bubus a Ă©crit:but when you took the picture, it was "0"
and so abnormal to have "0" with the expansion vessel inflated to normal air pressure arround 2 bar

Yes, it was 0 when I took the picture, was on the time that the E01 was stoppimg my PHRT.
Last night I've did like you said. I've put it in 2BAR and after I close valve 3 and 4 droped to 1,8BAR.

This morning it was in 1,2BAR.


bubus a Ă©crit:could you tell us the references of Honeywell control box and e-valves at floor collector

It's a Honeywell dt90a1008
https://products.ecc.emea.honeywell.com ... 7r1208.pdf

I'll tell latter the e-valves (they are hiding in the closet.


bubus a Ă©crit:could you also try to insert a cable in the hole labelled "bainha" on top of tank
top_tank.jpg


I'll try latter.
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar bubus » Mer FĂ©v 08, 2017 3:07 pm

bubus a Ă©crit:but when you took the picture, it was "0"
and so abnormal to have "0" with the expansion vessel inflated to normal air pressure arround 2 bar

i was speaking about air pressure arround "2 bar" and not water pressure
before the expansion vessel will be fill with water, it should be inflated to a nominal air pressure
without this, it does not work properly.
this was what happened when you wrote this on 08/01:
fcaracol a Ă©crit:The one on the left is with pressure at 0, I guess it's not working. It seams to me that is full of water.

but it's normal to check regularly the "inflate pressure" ; sometimes the membrane is also broken !!
fcaracol_expans.JPG
fcaracol_expans.JPG (8.37 Kio) Vu 2664 fois


bubus a Ă©crit:could you tell us the reference of Honeywell control box at floor collector

it was not the thermostat at home but the electronical box near the collector to open close floor zone valves
to check if this box has feature to control Alpha pump
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar fcaracol » Jeu FĂ©v 09, 2017 1:13 am

Tomorrow a friend will came at my home and I'll ask if he can check the expansion vessels.

bubus a Ă©crit:could you tell us the reference of Honeywell control box at floor collector

It's a honeywell vu4143h1001

Can't see any reference in the E-valves.
Image
Image
Image

bubus a Ă©crit:could you also try to insert a cable in the hole labelled "bainha" on top of tank

Yes, I have inserted a cable inside "bainha".
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar bubus » Jeu FĂ©v 09, 2017 9:26 am

hi

fcaracol_floor.jpg
fcaracol_floor.jpg (20.2 Kio) Vu 2657 fois

Yes, I have inserted a cable inside "bainha".

1m or 50 cm or 10cm?
this hole is used to measure T° of internal tank for DHW

i'll show you later a new schematic to improve control of heat pump and consumption (i think!!)


for the collector, something is wrong in install if each floor zone have a valve;
what's happening when all zone are closed ( no heating request in rooms) : the Alpha pump will still running with a reduced flow ?
in such case (no heating request), generaly we stop the water pump or we install a bypass between water inlet and outlet at collector (a "discharge valve" which open when increasing pressure)

I think this is the case (no heating request)when you notice 38° at inlet and 22°outlet with Alpha running but all valve closed
try with heating request ( change setpoint at some room thermostats ) and after few minutes save the T° inlet outlet

also be carefull with T° indicator at collector ; in my install i have 2° delta without flow

sorry for bad english

bye
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar fcaracol » Ven FĂ©v 10, 2017 12:57 am

bubus a Ă©crit:1m or 50 cm or 10cm?

10cm


bubus a Ă©crit:for the collector, something is wrong in install if each floor zone have a valve;
what's happening when all zone are closed ( no heating request in rooms) : the Alpha pump will still running with a reduced flow ?
in such case (no heating request), generaly we stop the water pump or we install a bypass between water inlet and outlet at collector (a "discharge valve" which open when increasing pressure)


I have a box on the ground floor (in picture) and each valve (7) is for a room/zone.

I have another box in the 1st floor and each valve (3) is for a room/zone.

The Alpha pump is set at minimum speed now. If all zones are closed, the Alpha pump continue at the same speed.

bubus a écrit:try with heating request ( change setpoint at some room thermostats ) and after few minutes save the T° inlet outlet


I've set one room at 25ÂşC. After a few minutes the inlet was 42ÂşC and the outlet was 34ÂşC
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar jld82 » Sam FĂ©v 11, 2017 11:47 am

fcaracol a Ă©crit:Hi,
Today I've turn the relief valve inside the PHRT. It seams to be ok, the water start to come out when I turn a little bit, so the relief valve isn't stuck (remain opened). Could the oxidized/blue below the relief valve and near the water flow controller be because of water that came out from the relief valve due to high pressure (>3BAR) in certain moments?

I've closed the taps and remove the filter outside the PHRT. It was with a little bit dirt/mud but not much. I've clean it. After I open the filter, the pressure on the PHRT drop down to 0. After I put all together, open the taps and turn on the PHRT the pressure didn't get up. Inside the house, the manometer near the pressure regulator is at 0,2BAR. What is missing? What I did wrong? :-(

.........

jld82 a Ă©crit:On the first picture the "Security group" is not at the good place , if pressure go upper than 3 kg/cm then water goes out and is running on equipements below.
Add un pipe to the output off G.S. (on the left , 3/4" male) going to the bottom near the PHRT floor , must be let open , you may add a plastic box on the floor to see how many water goes out througth the G.S.

I'm no expert on this matter, but was what I thought. You have clear me out. Thanks


Hi
In your PHRT ,to prevent oxydation, you can add at the output off the "Security group" or "relief valve" a pipe as i said before.
Tow componants and a pipe going to the bottom near the floor off PHRT or outside :
https://www.manomano.fr/raccord-en-laiton-1555
https://www.manomano.fr/raccord-per/cou ... bre-508101
"femelle Ă©crou libre" = "Female Free Screw"
Bye. Look picture below:
Fichiers joints
DSCN7401.JPG
Maison 1980 110m2, EDF 9kw J/N Tri. , PAC air-eau 2008 Technibel PHR11-tri + régul. K60D066Z + ballon mélange 150l, relève FOD sur rad. fonte surdim. (33°/-5°) .
Ma fille : BBC 2012 130m2 Altherma EKHBH008BB6v3/ERHQ007BBv3 sur P.C. Rehau avec T.A. EKRTWA
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar jld82 » Sam FĂ©v 11, 2017 12:08 pm

jld82 a Ă©crit:Hi
See here :
download/file.php?id=1773&mode=view

If pressure on PHRT12 is 0.2 kg/cm , you must open the valve 2 to add water and then close it when 1,5 kg/cm is reach , if not you can modify the pressure regulator to have 1,5kg.

You can remove pressure regulator and replace it by a disconnector ( near 50 euros) , see here :
https://www.amazon.fr/Elm-leblanc-Disco ... connecteur

You may install your pressure regulator at the beginning of your drinking water installation in order to have 3,0 kg/cm at the entry G.S. off drinking hot water rather than 4.5kg/cm.

Bye


Hi
See again your install (picture modified by bubus) , look on the left the G.S. and V.E. of heating/cooling circuit and solar tank.
The "Security group" seen to be an 7kg/cm (look on the green button) so the lowest in the PHRT is openning !

The expansion vessel ("vase d'expansion" in french) may be full of water : press on the valse under the vessel , if water goes out the vessel is dead!
Maison 1980 110m2, EDF 9kw J/N Tri. , PAC air-eau 2008 Technibel PHR11-tri + régul. K60D066Z + ballon mélange 150l, relève FOD sur rad. fonte surdim. (33°/-5°) .
Ma fille : BBC 2012 130m2 Altherma EKHBH008BB6v3/ERHQ007BBv3 sur P.C. Rehau avec T.A. EKRTWA
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar fcaracol » Lun FĂ©v 13, 2017 9:18 am

jld82 a Ă©crit:The expansion vessel ("vase d'expansion" in french) may be full of water : press on the valse under the vessel , if water goes out the vessel is dead!


I have tested all 3 expansion vessel, and no water came out. They are all ok.
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar bubus » Lun FĂ©v 13, 2017 12:28 pm

hi

an improvement way to reduce consumption:
fcaracol_regul.JPG
fcaracol_regul._1JPG.JPG
fcaracol_regul._1JPG.JPG (9.9 Kio) Vu 2599 fois

bye
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar fcaracol » Jeu FĂ©v 16, 2017 12:20 am

bubus a Ă©crit:hi

an improvement way to reduce consumption:
fcaracol_regul.JPG
fcaracol_regul._1JPG.JPG

bye


The idea is to turn on the PHRT only when the tank is <50ÂşC?

I have to find someone to help me with this in my house, don't feel confident. :-)

Thanks you guys for all of you help. I'll join all of this information for change my system for an upgrated version.
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar bubus » Jeu FĂ©v 16, 2017 9:09 am

fcaracol a Ă©crit:..The idea is to turn on the PHRT only when the tank is <50ÂşC?..

all right

I set 50° but if thermostat in tank is adjustable, it's you who can set the "good" conditions to start PHRT
if you still want to have DHW, you set around 50°
if you prefer only heating floor, you set around 30,35°

for Alpha pump, the Honeywell control box (floor zone) has the feature to turn on/off it via a relay inside this box

it's also important to measure the flow by following MHz proceeding

bye
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Re: Help - Technibel PHRT 12

Messagepar fcaracol » Ven FĂ©v 17, 2017 12:28 am

bubus a Ă©crit:
fcaracol a Ă©crit:..The idea is to turn on the PHRT only when the tank is <50ÂşC?..

all right

I set 50° but if thermostat in tank is adjustable, it's you who can set the "good" conditions to start PHRT
if you still want to have DHW, you set around 50°
if you prefer only heating floor, you set around 30,35°

for Alpha pump, the Honeywell control box (floor zone) has the feature to turn on/off it via a relay inside this box

it's also important to measure the flow by following MHz proceeding

bye


Ok,
I never used the cold function and never will, the consumptions of the PHRT are too high, nothing to do about it. What I'm going to do, with help of a friend, when the weather gets better is to remove the Cold floor function and the system will became simpler. And don't be needing the 3WV or the 2WV. And will program the system do turn off when is no needed. Now the system is always turn on. :-(

There are other things that I have to change:

The oxidated on the PHRT is a leak on the security valve (3 BAR) when they install it they twisted the tube.

Other thing, is the Tank <---> Solar Panels are not working 100%, have to fill with water.

On the top of the tank, when I remove the top cover I can see that the "screws" have rust on them.
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